How to Make Revenue a Focus for Everyone In Your Company | Paul Daniels

Moby: Honestly, this process of reaching out to guests cold for the show surprises me more often than not. When I connected with our guests today, his immediate thoughtfulness and kindness to a stranger jumped out at me just instantly. I was kind of blown away with it. And that guest today is Paul Daniels, CRO of intelligent contacts and the creator of Peripheral Thinking.

Moby: He's built multiple revenue teams from the ground up has deep, deep expertise in sales and revenue generation. And I absolutely love his philosophy that everybody in a company is a contributor in revenue generation. In this episode, he shares stories from his long career in a revenue generation sales and demand gen.

Moby: As well as the story of the absolute biggest deal that I've personally ever heard on the show, he's a fantastic person. And I highly recommend that you connect with him. Enjoy.

Moby: What is up, everybody. Welcome back to the show today. I have someone here, which I'm super excited to introduce you to Paul Daniels, as you just heard the intro, Paul, how are you?

Paul: I'm doing great long time listener. First time guest. Thank you for letting me come on.

Moby: And of course

Moby: we had a few great conversations in the green room as it was before we jump in into everything else.

Moby: And you're like your story. I love to talk about the CRO role, which a lot of people are like, all right. I understand what a VP of sales does or a CMO, but as you see it having, you know, generated 2.5 billion-plus in revenue and done so many things in different industries, what do you think a role of a CRO is, especially in an organization that has a VP of sales or has a marketing department?

Paul: Right? So it's, it's starting to evolve, frankly. You know, it, when the VP of sales wanted a seat at the table in the officer ranks, it became a chief sales officer, and then we've seen it evolve into a chief revenue officer or chief growth officer.

Paul: They have slight differentiations, but for a chief revenue officer, it is not the finance person. So that's clear, it's not CFO, or chief revenue officer, and it focuses all of the organization's efforts toward revenue generator. Typically growth, right? So it's not just iterative where year over year it's it's what is our path to 10 X, two, whatever that is.

Paul: And so that will include things like sales, of course, marketing of course, sales, operations, client success, or support. It does touch. Every part of the company as a CRO and having been a chief officer of other companies. Typically the first thing I do when I come into an organization is looking at the client journey and the revenue journey.

Paul: Where does revenue start? How does it grow? And how does that align with the client's journey and how many people influence that journey? And so if somebody let's say you've got a thousand-person company, a hundred-person company, and you've got, say three sales, uh, direct salespeople, maybe a VP of sales and a couple of inside salespeople.

Paul: So that's three-plus VP of sales for, and we'll add two more. So we'll make it six. So of your a hundred people, how many people are inside? It's not six it's 100. They don't like that. No, no, no. I'm not at sales. That's true. I understand your definition of sales, but the company exists to make revenue.

Paul: Everyone contributes and everyone contributes to each other. So sales does not just go identify club. Shake hands, play golf, sign big deals and take big vacations. That's not sales. That's what people think it is, but that's not it. They're also responsible for bringing insights back to the organization.

Paul: They're responsible for sharing. What challenges our contract may have with different organizations or industries. There are, they're responsible for making sure that the transition to implementation into ongoing support and to renewals and upgrading, and those kinds of things are well-documented. So that account management can do those things.

Paul: They're responsible for making sure that we know when we're going to get paid and then it's in systems appropriately, whether they put it in or they're communicating and vice versa, everyone contributes. And everyone benefits from the revenue that comes from the organization's profitability. So a chief revenue officer's responsibility is to map that path to growth, profitability, viability, market share, whatever that is, all that relate to.

Paul: Making more money, more profitably and in shorter amount of time.

Moby: Absolutely. No, thank you for that explanation, especially with context, I'd love to kind of dig deeper into it, you mentioned a client journey or what some people might call it, customer journey, and that's something that. Not as many people do as they should, but you also segmented that there is a client journey and then there's a revenue journey.

Moby: A lot of people might not know that there are separate things. Can you tell me more when, what do you mean by what's a, what's the journey of revenue in a company versus just a customer journey or a client journey?

Paul: Right? So any organization that has an existing client, one or more clients you have revenue. That may be for a SAS organization to start up.

Paul: You're looking at monthly recurring revenue as in a SAS model or you're selling licenses to software or services or whatever that you have, revenue. How are you using that revenue? Am I getting that revenue at the time? I expect it. And then how is that revenue distributed throughout the organization to feed the engine that drives.

Paul: So I'm starting that locomotive, if you will already powered or I'm starting to get a power, I'm adding fuel. We're not going to use coal. We'll say it's an electric engine to be ecologically and politically correct, but it's, it's moving down the track now. How do I ensure that I can keep it moving by adding more clients in?

Paul: And what is that contact contract to revenue? To spend to profitability, repeat the cycle. How does that align with our client's journey? We believe that our clients will love exactly what we do and therefore it shouldn't take more than two phone calls, a demo, and one conversation. Hmm. That's about four weeks.

Paul: No, it's a little longer. So let's make sure that we're all in sync and that we haven't crossed the line yet. Cause the check hasn't come in and it hasn't cashed and we're not getting a repeatable revenue stream from that. Yeah. When do we count that? I don't know, six months a year, whatever that is. And so that's how the revenue stream has its own sort of life cycle, which should not be separate from the client life cycle.

Paul: They should be symbiotic, but often they're not because of expectations or, you know, the widget that we've created just isn't the sensation we thought was going to be. So it may take longer, or it may take two widgets, or we may need some funding, which isn't revenue, but it comes in as, you know, operating capital.

Moby: Absolutely. And what you kind of are talking about is not only a set of frameworks or tactics and activities, there's also. And correct me if I'm wrong, but a way of thinking about revenue in the organization and how people operate. Have you found that, and there's a layer of operations, marketing, sales, management, all of that in that, have you found that the companies are, have difficulties embracing that, Hey, everybody's kind of responsible or touches revenue or has it kind of been easier or it's just a spectrum.

Paul: I believe in the goodness of people. So I'll go ahead and just state that for your listeners. So some may disagree and that's fine. I still love you because I believe in you. So if you think that this is too, uh, esoteric, I just take it with a grain of salt, but when people understand. The vision of the company, they understand the strategic narrative to quote a friend of mine and where we're going the cause that we are behind the, the responsibilities.

Paul: We all have to turn out the lights. If you're the last person leaving the office, just small things like that. Do you really need four more pencils or can one do, but we're not trying to be cheap. We're trying to be. Good stewards of what we have so that we can grow this thing that we are all passionate about.

Paul: Once people recognize that they don't have a job, they have a responsibility that they have a passion, they contribute. I found some of them really set up and go, I didn't realize I was that important. And of course, you're important if the person doesn't come to clean my office a couple of times a week, then I will.

Paul: But that's also 10 minutes that I may not have. So I value and I get to see them because I, I come in early and I stay late. So I get to see the people that clean. And I'm always grateful. Thank you. Here are my trashcan music DMTs. Thank you so much for your help. I can tell you nobody else on this side of the building was here today.

Paul: So you can move on to your next job. All of that means everybody's on the same. You don't have to be on the same page with the same level of passion, but everyone contributes. And yes, I do find that when you share. The vision and you're as transparent as you can be. Everybody's on board. They get it.

Paul: People will leave. People will come. That's just the nature nature of any business. But yes, I have, it takes a little personal. Was. If you will, because there are a lot of personality types, some are very analytical, some are more emotional, some are more creative, et cetera. So it's meeting each individual or group of individuals where they are.

Paul: And speaking to that in a way, even in a large setting, that everyone is taking something away that comes back to the same point that we're all sponsoring.

Moby: Love it. And Especially, I think you're tying in with the term that you use strategic narrative because it implies that there is alignment in leadership about what we're going to do, how we're going to do it, and why we're doing it.

Moby: And not only that, it is up to leadership to really not simplify, to boil it down. Communicate it frequently and effectively to team members so that they get it. I think one of the frictions, one of the sources of friction in any company is when leadership has a strategy and they're like, Hey, a lot of our team members don't get it.

Moby: But a question to ask first is, has it been communicated effectively and frequently?

Paul: Right. Yep. So the strategic narrative is something that a friend of mine, Gillum waiter just shared with me recently. He's, um, he's in the Pacific Northwest originally from France and, and he has a terrific model and I would suggest anybody that's interested in that, taking a look at it, but to the point of.

Paul: People owning their piece of it. It is a vision of the founder that the founder then finds people that can contribute to that vision. And if the founder, if she's wise, she will find people that have slightly different views. So that, that vision continues to move in the same direction. But it expands not in a way that, uh, we're all things to all markets.

Paul: It expands in strength like exercising muscles, they get bigger, it expands and become stronger. And it's easier for people to plug into that size of a vision. Now I'm maybe weaving in and out of different lanes within that vision, but I know that I'm moving in the right direction because we're all on board.

Paul: It takes skilled leaders and skilled leadership in sales. I take it as a. I spend thousands of dollars every year, my own money to continue to hone my skills. After 40 years of selling, I'm still doing this because it's a profession. The same thing is for leaders, you are a leader, a chief officer or a vice-president.

Paul: If you lead more than yourself, you owe it to the people that you lead. To continue to hone that skill. A story. Many years ago, I had lost sight in my left eye for a number of reasons. I had an infection. It grew. And so I was blind. I needed a cornea transplant. I received a cornea transplant, took about four years to find the right person to do it.

Paul: Very delicate operation. Shout out to Dr. Beebe in Dallas, he did a magnificent job and you know, if the people were listening or were watching, I would show a picture of my eye right after surgery. And there are 17 little white dots around the cornea in the center of my eye. Those were all sutures, hand-stitched.

Paul: Hand-stitched for a five-millimeter. I think it was a centimeter. Whatever the smaller part is. Um, a little cornea that went on my eye. He does that because he's a professional. When he's not doing surgery, not being with patients. What do you think he's doing? He's practicing his profession. He's honing it. And after however many years of doing.

Paul: He's one of the best in the world. That's what leaders do leaders eat. Last leaders put more emphasis on their people and they continue to articulate and reinforce the vision. ,

Moby: Absolutely now but that's a really good way to put it because a lot of leaders are like, oh, I mean a leadership position. That's enough.

Moby: It's never is. And I really appreciate that. You made the analogy of like, Hey, I'm going to get better at sales because it's a profession. And just like that leadership as a profession with the additional responsibility that you owe it to the people. That you're working with. And one of the things that you mentioned was honing, like holding your craft and profession after spending so much time in selling and marketing and revenue, operations and leadership or revenue generation.

Moby: When we look at somebody who's just starting their company, or they just joined, I was in a call for. 40 minutes with a friend who just became the first sales person for a crypto startup. And they had a lot of questions. You've gone into organizations and really scaled up their revenue. Could you share a story of scaling up revenue that you're like, oh, we went into this organization and here's the goal.

Moby: And we saw here's how we kind of approach that problem of, we need to generate revenue, how you went about it?.

Paul: So there's yes, I can. There's a secret set of super skinny. So just go with me on this, that innovative leaders, including sales leaders have used for centuries to innovate beyond obstacles, find new paths to success and growth and do it in any market condition.

Paul: Yes. Even including and during COVID about 10% of the population is born with these skills. And I, I use these skills because I'm one of the 10% that were born with it. I'm dyslexic. It's a crazy thing. People think, oh, dyslexic weight. That's like a disease, right? No, it's not a disease. It's a learning difference.

Paul: And the mind processes, information unique. So the stories that I'm about to tell and all of that, I wanted to put that as a baseline because some of this may not make sense, but it is the way that my mind collects combines and massages, unrelated ideas, solutions, processes, procedures. In order to create something new who seemingly new, but it's all proven solutions.

Paul: So I start just by saying you have access to absolutely everything you need to achieve anything. As your friend, that's an individual salesperson. He has access to everything he needs to achieve. Anything you want. As long as he's able to look outside of the conventional wisdom of industry, he's in a great spot because it's crypto and it's just now starting to get some conventions.

Paul: So you've got lots of play as a sales professional, I've been in leadership positions. I've gone into one organization. Won't mention the name of the company, large multinational. I dunno, our, our division was, uh, 15,000 employees of say 80,000. And my team of people were given a quota for, for some crazy number and it was 10 X, what the entire North American division had done the year before.

Paul: So the division had done 15 million in new revenue the year before. And my team was given $150 million. So I thought, um, maybe they don't want me to stay or no, no, no. It's a typo. So down to the, you know, the division president's office, I go, um, this is not right. And he's just mouses. No, it's right. Uh, okay.

Paul: So it's the end of October. I've got two months to figure out what I'm going to do. In one year, what the company has never done. And our sales cycle was long, typically 12, 18 months. So the net, net of the story, since I'm going a little long is at that same time that I'm trying to figure out what I need, what our team needs to do.

Paul: We start researching well, here's what the competition is. And there they're fighting for this middle layer because they've already captured the top-tier players in the market. They've already captured our targets, but they captured in like five or six years ago. So I wonder how well they're taking care of them.

Paul: Well, even if I find one that isn't happy with one of our competitors, they still need to have some kind of a compelling need or a compelling event for them to make a change because making a change is difficult. Right. It's inevitable, but it's still difficult. So we started to narrow it down and I narrowed it down to a couple of companies.

Paul: And then I did what any professional sales leader would do. I went shopping. I started shopping for land in Texas because I hadn't seen my wife for a while. And I was just trying to keep the marriage going. So we were out shopping, looking at land. She grew up in the country and we found a piece of land that was not for sale.

Paul: And we did some phone calls, found the owner and we met. And Earl was a terrific man and he'd own, the land has been in his family for a long time. Wasn't willing to sell it, but he said, you know, if y'all are in the area, why don't y'all come over by and we'll just have a sit and talk a little bit about it.

Paul: And we did. So we went by and we had some ice tea sitting in rocking chairs on his porch, and I learned first, right to refuse. Never heard that term before. I'm not in real estate, if you are, you get it. So we worked out a deal where if you ever chose to sell that land, that I'd have at least the first right to do that, to buy it on the way home I'm driving.

Paul: And I said, I just started talking about it. That's it. That's exactly what I need to do. But of course, my wife knows me well enough. She just sits there silently going. Okay. He's crazy. He's doing. Thinking out loud. So I use that principle and the study that the research we did on our, our best target client and created an approach to, to get them to say yes, that they would give us unfettered access, non-competitive access to do our due diligence.

Paul: If we could deliver on a promise. So give to get. So I went in, I set up a meeting for the first week of January. I was able to get in, I wasn't, it was supposed to be a phone call. I flew in. Anyway, I showed up at the office, you know, the typical stuff and have the CIO saying, you know, we're really not in the market.

Paul: I said, yeah, I know, I know you're not in the market, but you are competing or preparing to compete for this really large contract with an RP. Correct. Yeah. How did you know that? I just do, I know that and you're competing against so-and-so and so, and based on your financials, you need to build a war chest because it's going to cost you to get that business.

Paul: It's like, that's right. But that's, I'm the CIO, that's the CFO and the chief sales officer. That's their responsibility. Yeah. Well, what if I could get you $20 million like right now to fund that war chest, would you, would that be held. Okay. You've got my interest. Now, three hours later, a 30-minute meeting went three hours.

Paul: I walk out with a signed letter of intent that looked a lot like the first right of refusal. Six months later, we sign an agreement. The incumbent, IBM never had a chance at it. They could never do it. And they'd never heard about it until we had won it. And it was $220 million. Now the best story of this isn't that we did that in six months, January to June, it was that that client took the 20 million and they turned it into $1.2 billion in.

Paul: Right. That's the kind of success when a sales professional takes off, takes on the responsibility of their client's success and they go all in. There's just no stopping that kind of relationship. Do I still have a relationship with that CEO? Absolutely. This was a huge win he's since retired, got a house, uh, in diamonds.

Paul: I can go visit, uh, excuse me, Hilton's head. I can go visit all of those things, but those relationships that I've had for the last 40 years, all of them have proven successful for the client and thus created a symbiotic client and revenue stream. They follow along with each other and they feed off of each other because that client is so referenceable.

Paul: They were very quick to introduce us to others, including ARP saying they've done some greasiest create stuff for us. Maybe they could do some stuff for you. Love it. And I didn't question it, it was a long story, but I know

Moby: I love that story. I was very, very, uh, uh, enthralled by it. And I think you mentioned two things, I'll say the second one that you mentioned first, which is client success, you will have down the story.

Moby: Like you really understood what the client wanted and you kind of through working through positioning what you. We're going to do it for them, gave them what they wanted. And then the first right of refusal, you said you walked out the letter of intent, which was like an, a, like the first right of refusal.

Moby: If you're almost listening and they're like, oh, interesting. And please clarify for me too, which is, is the aim to kind of get to that first. Refusal.

Paul: Well, in this case, in outsourcing like business office outsourcing your it outsourcing or any kind of outsourcing that typical large deal is going to go out to an RFP.

Paul: It is almost many of them mandated by their company. Bylaws know this company didn't have that kind of man. Which I knew because I did the research. So the intent was to have their clear focus first and foremost on this initiative. And to do that. I could not rally the resources internally and justify the cost associated with pursuing that.

Paul: If I didn't have a sense from the client, that they too were committed to that successful outcome, and it was still coming upon me to prove that we could deliver what we could deliver. And that was outlined in the letter of. So I knew I wasn't going to get a contract, but what was the next best thing I could do?

Paul: Well, the next best thing is to, is to eliminate all competition, including the internal competition, an organization that wants to keep. So they're internal people, but I still have the responsibility to prove that we, I shouldn't say I, my team had the responsibility to improve, to, to prove that we could deliver what we said we could.

Paul: And we said, we'd do it in four months. It took us five. Mm. Three months into it. They're like, this is good. This is good. You know, we're getting content. We understand where you're going with this and you're right. We're not capable of doing what you're capable of doing. Um, so how can we help you? What more can we give you to make sure that we hit that objective so we can move on.

Paul: And then in the letter of intent, once we proved it and they did the nodding like you're doing, we move directly into contract negotiation. It was not time for them to say, okay, so now we're going to put it out to bid, right? The letter of intent. After we do this and we prove it, then we go right into contract review and we execute that contract all again, incumbent upon us to prove it, but it eliminated the competition and allowed me to cost-justify.

Paul: You know, the the 35 or so people that were pursuing this particular opportunity in technology and support and, you know, finance and all of that. So we engage virtually every division within the company, somebody from every division within the, our, our group was represented.

Moby: Absolutely. And it kind of reminds me of the. Not just of the content of the book, but the title of the book, especially as it relates to understanding the customer's problem and actually being able to deliver the solution that they want. Um, so good. They can't ignore you fascinating book. And actually, it kind of reminds me of what you said, how you positioned this in front of the client.

Moby: Uh, we've gone really hard into podcasting and also TikTok. Yeah. And we have. I have been in SM for a while. And now we're like three videos a day on TikTok, right. We're pushing on a lot of content. And with that comes a following and a lot of great positive comments and a lot of negative comments.

Moby: And what I find interesting is because I used to have that mindset a long time ago, somebody common. Cause I make a lot of videos about sales. Somebody, comments sales is about selling something that people don't want. And that to me was like, Sure. I mean, you might be able to sell like a $50 visit on TV to somebody who doesn't really need it, but they're amazed, but nobody's going to buy a $500,000 thing from you in B2B sales, unless you've really shown that you understand their problem and they have a problem and your solution is what they need.

Paul: Correct. Correct. And you can prove it if you can show that it aligns. Right? So a lot of that six months was spent showing how this revenue model was going to work for them to achieve what their objective was, which was to generate cash so that they had a war chest to pursue the largest deal in their companies.

Paul: And we are, we are cheering them on. We close the deal and we are cheering them on all the way to the point where they inked the deal and they win the ARP account and they invite us to the wind party. That's fantastic. 18 months, right? So no sales is not selling something to someone that doesn't want it.

Paul: I don't know what that's called, but that's not sales probably scanning and that's not what sales is. Right. And then there are salespeople, and then there are sales professionals, sales professionals, practice sutures. They practice their skill. They stand in front of a camera like I am now and record themselves.

Paul: They practice how they're going to say things. They research their clients. They understand they build rapport, they build relationships. And even though it's B2B, it's still, HDH human to human.

Moby: Absolutely. And w what you mentioned the start, which is being invited to their wind party. I think it's not about being a vendor. It's about being a trusted advisor.

Paul: Um, and you know, maybe that word has that phrase has been thrown around so much that maybe together we can brainstorm on a different phrase, trusted advisor thought leader, um, preferred partner, all of those in their, at their inception. Fabulous. They were righteous.

Paul: They were really spot on. And then somebody goes, oh, well, they want it because they call themselves a preferred partner. That's what we'll be. We're going to be. Really do you know what that means? That means that you have skin in the game that, your revenue is actually going to come based on their revenue.

Paul: Is that what you know, no, no. That's not what I meant. I just meant that I'm going to be nice to them. Well, that's not a partner, right? Yeah.

Moby: Get it. Yeah, no, I a hundred percent see it because there's a difference. The stark difference between being a trusted advisor versus marketing and putting in your copy that

Paul: Yeah, we'll put, yeah. That's spot on. You're exactly right. Yeah. Spot on it. The proof is in the action, right? It's about what you do now, what you say 

Moby: a hundred percent, uh, kind of towards the tail end of this conversation, you really drove home the point. Practicing your skills. And regardless of whether I mean, any leader needs to understand this show is called the B2B CEO, and there are a lot of leaders on it, but in terms of practicing the craft of revenue and learning more about it through books or podcasts, what's a resource that you recommend.

Moby: People check out whether it's a book or a podcast, or even your favorite movie that might help them in this journey.

Paul: Right. There are a couple of phrases. That resonated with me. And then there's, uh, two books that I recommend. So the phrases that resonate with me that remind me of my responsibilities are every minute that we are not closing business, is a minute, we don't get back.

Paul: That's lost. Not to be meant as a, uh, cracking a whip. It's a realization that time is short it's limited. This moment is only here now. And what am I doing as a leader, as a CEO, as a CRO, as a VP of sales CMO to make strides and move. Continue to move our passion and our message forward. So every minute that we're not doing that, we don't get that back.

Paul: We can't double up on minutes because they're only doled out one at a time. The other is that you can't save your wealth your way into growth. So during recessions, which there may be one coming now is the time to be preparing. With alternate plans and evaluating industries that are less prone to the effects of recessions and also preparing for the opposite.

Paul: So it's the continual preparation for what may happen so that if it does. The full weight of it is not felt as a surprise. Yeah. It's, it's been expected and planned for. And, uh, her, her Southwest CEO is terrific at this, from what I understand, he had no those plans they did every year and they sat in the upper left-hand drawer of his desk.

Paul: And anytime a crisis came, he pulled that out and they'd already planned for something. So they didn't need to scramble go, what are we going to do? What are you? Well, look, here's what we said we would do. Let's do this. The, the books that I, I like one is because this is the way I think it's called blue ocean strategy.

Paul: It's from forever ago. And it's just about differentiation. I talk about this in my keynote speeches and as an advisor, best practices, industry, best practices. Some of them are very good, but at what point does the best practice reinforce a somewhat narrow view of conventional. So the second book that I liked very much is sun Sue's art of war, which is much older than the ocean strategy.

Paul: And there's a particular version of it by James Carvel that I like, and I've bought as many copies as I can. I give them out to everybody. I've actually, I have seven of my own I'm on my seventh because I read through it and I write and the first six, there's no more room to write. Uh, so I'm on my seventh, same book and there's just, there's such, um, a breadth of.

Paul: That is put into any action and all of the potential consequences, as well as the potential rewards. And I, I am not a proponent for war. Don't get me wrong there, but it's the strategy and the understanding of who you really are. Who your competitor or your enemy is and what it is you're fighting for, what is that land that you're fighting for to achieve?

Paul: And that is the clients, right? So those are the ones that, you know, that stick with me. The last one is, is a quote that I think Roosevelt, Theodore Roosevelt said that people don't care how much, you know, until they know how much. And that's, you know, that's just the way I live. People don't care. I don't show up and throw up.

Paul: I'm there to serve. I'm here to serve you and your audience. And if they were listening and wanted to ask questions, I'd be happy to answer those because it's about them. It's not about me, whatever I can do to help. I love it. No, I think you

Moby: I love it. No, I think you really communicate that well, that you are here to serve in this podcast and the first conversation.

Moby: And I really appreciate your time today. Paul, we'll make sure that any LinkedIn, LinkedIn and we'll have show notes and thank you for such a good practical, as well as philosophical discussion on revenue, what that actually means and sales as well. Yeah. Yeah. And everybody is in sales. Everyone's in sales. I know that bothers some people, but it's a good thing.

Paul: It's not a bad thing. You're not sleazy, you know, a used car salesperson. You're, you're uh, on a righteous mission to make sure your company reaches as many clients and has the biggest impact as you can while you have that time with the company. I absolutely agree. I appreciate you, man. I think you're, um, you're fascinating and I love all your stories and keep doing these podcasts because I dig them every time he came up.

Paul: Oh, you.

Moby: Thanks. Well,